Get Social - The Connected Leader Podcast - Amanda Downs, Director of Commercial Leadership, Uspire

Michelle Carvill:
Hello and welcome to the Get Social Connected Leader podcast where I, Michelle Carvill, interview business leaders around the practicalities of how in this hyper-connected digital age they are embracing digital technologies to tune in, connect and communicate. You can find all episodes of the podcast together with the show notes via our website, carvillcreative.co.uk/podcasts. In this episode of the Get Social Connected Leader podcast I'm delighted to interview Amanda Downs. Amanda is director of Commercial Leadership at Uspire where she challenges and supports leaders in organizations of all sizes to energize their people, making sure that their impact and what they intend to achieve literally bursts out at the end of the pipeline for customers. In these unprecedented times, this time of lockdown and social distancing, Amanda brings her thoughts on how to stay close to your team and customers so they are still with you when we're all through this, focusing on how you can still show up. Amanda, it's really wonderful to have you here on the Connected Leader podcast.
Amanda Downs:
Hi, Michelle. Yeah, it's great to be here. Difficult times, hey?
Michelle Carvill:
Very difficult times so I appreciate you being on here and also, thank goodness to the technology, which I'm sure we'll explore a little in detail.
Amanda Downs:
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Michelle Carvill:
So we've connected, Amanda, offline at a networking event. We've connected online and we've done some work together over the years. Tell me a little bit about your journey around digital and being that connected leader.
Amanda Downs:
Yeah. I think it's fair to say that until probably about three, four years ago I wasn't that digitally connected. Since then, the key thing that's helped me to get connected has been LinkedIn, so we can talk about that. Right now in terms of the journey, we're on a massive learning curve I think as a society around digital, so I'm sure this podcast is going to be really useful to everybody, bearing in mind this situation with Covid-19. It's really interesting because as a leader I'm finding that I am helping my family, friends, children ... they're pretty good at it actually, but friends, children to get connected so we can keep in touch in the next few weeks.
Michelle Carvill:
It's amazing, isn't it? I found myself doing that. I've been helping some yoga teachers, how can I do my classes online? My children, like you say, they're all over it. They've got this house party app. They're all having these conversations when they can't physically get to one another, so it has got this wonderful ... thank goodness, wonderful element of connecting us all.
Amanda Downs:
Yeah. Let me just come back to LinkedIn in particular I think, Michelle. As a leader in Uspire and Sales Growth Expert, I work with sales commercial leaders and all sorts of different types of leaders on a regular basis. One of the things that we support them with is how to show up for their teams, how to show up for their customers and how to show up as a leader. It's frustrating sometimes that sometimes leaders don't quite know how to show up digitally. I know that you are spending your life's work, Michelle, helping people to do that, which is fantastic and long may continue and it is absolutely going to. The thing that I found was that I needed ... I was scared, actually. I was scared to show up digitally, in particular on LinkedIn where you say some stuff and people may or may not connect with it, and may or may not resonate with it. What helped me a lot was actually turning some of the value proposition stuff that we do as a business with our clients, on myself, in terms of how I actually do, I want to show up as a leader. The absolute, absolute best piece of advice I ever got was ... and thinking about it from your book actually, was to be authentic, speaking your own voice.
Amanda Downs:
And whilst there's some head stuff that you need to think about in terms of the strategy of how you want to come across and what you want to say to the world, really, digitally, it is also about instincts so there's head and heart involved. For me it's about being myself digitally. I don't think I was when I first started. I think I was trying to be some kind of, I don't know, professional corporate leader who says profound things on the state of business and the world. Actually, that's not me.
Michelle Carvill:
Yeah. You hit the nail on the head there, Amanda. It's what I've heard so many times. And if we think about it, if I'm really transparent and honest about myself and my career, there's been so many times where I've shown up as a consultant, as an adviser, as an educator, and it's not me. In the real world, it's not me. Of course, what we mirror digitally is, it's a perception of what we think we should be like. As you've just said, oh, I need to be this corporate, but actually people really connect with people, don't they? That's the real strength of being a good leader.
Amanda Downs:
Yeah. I mean, when we support leaders to be the best they can be with their teams, I always grab a flip chart and I draw a pipe. If you imagine that your leadership and the way that you are showing up for you and your customers is like a big pipe and we stuff energy into the front of the pipe, into one end of the pipe ... as a leadership team, as a board, as a business owner. However we do it, we stuff our energy in there and it's got to go through a pipe. In some cases that pipe might be massive with thousands of other people involved if you're a big global business. In other cases it might be just you or a smaller team. The absolute key is that by the time it gets to the end of the pipe, your energy ... whatever that might be for, an initiative, a new product, a service, a message you want to get through, when it comes out to your customers at the end, it's coming out with that huge burst of energy and not just dribbling through and sort of sputtering through in an underwhelming way.
Amanda Downs:
Digitally you can replicate that, just the energy that you put in, comes out in terms of the reputation and the energy that people feel around you.
Michelle Carvill:
It is. I like that analogy, it's great because I think digitally you can continually tell that story, can't you? It's very difficult for a leader, as you say ... let's say, it's a huge organization, to connect with every single one of their employees, or every single one of their customers physically. But they can keep that conversation dripping through that pipe with the right energy, pushing it through, and along and out continuously through digital connection, through those continuous conversations. So tell me ... because I know you mentioned LinkedIn, Amanda, and that is something for you. We connect on LinkedIn. I follow the work you put out there. You're sharing some great advice and it's very authentic. You comment, you share your views. You're active, you're courageous in saying what you think and not just ticking a box. You actually get involved in conversations and stuff. Tell me about how you are then encouraging other leaders? Because I know your work is all about coaching and mentoring and supporting others in their ... what advice are you giving to them about digital and showing up digitally?
Amanda Downs:
Okay, let's stick with LinkedIn. I coach a lot of leaders, so any time I work with a board or any time I work with a group of sales leaders, we talk about how they need to show up for their teams and customers. I didn't have the [inaudible 00:09:15] to talk about training. I would leave the training to you, Michelle. But there is an element of tips and advice and encouragement to bring their energy onto LinkedIn. Most of our businesses we work with at Uspire are corporate, so it's business-to-business and most of the businesses I work with at Sales Growth Expert tend to be ... not always, but tend to be [CC 00:09:43]. I ask coaching questions, how are you showing up on LinkedIn exactly? Where are you showing up digitally? So that when people want to check you out, or when you want to say something to the world, that you are saying it in an authentic way on a platform that's already there for you. I work with a lot of consultants and coaches and as I say, I do quite a lot of coaching myself. I coach them and mentor them through so often I will do a bit of LinkedIn coaching, so private messaging; you might want to think about using this or how are you going to get that message across?
Amanda Downs:
Often they'll send me articles or they'll send me a post that they're thinking of putting out there, because it is actually all about courage. When I first started the fear and anxiety around saying the wrong thing on LinkedIn was pretty high. I think that comes back to authenticity actually and comes back to living through your values. If you are being authentic and you are speaking as if you would be if you were face-to-face with people, then you can't really go far wrong. So what do I say to them? I say to them, "Be there. Start by liking and sharing other people's stuff, making a comment. Write a post with a visual, just a few sentences that says something that you would like to say to the world." Usually it would be to do with either your brand or actually to do with your view on something that's appropriate. And be there, I think, is really important.
Michelle Carvill:
One of the challenges, I think ... because similarly you're helping organizations to show up and questioning how they show up as a leader in lots of different ways. One of the questions I posed is indeed, how do you want to show up? A lot of the time people don't know and it takes a little bit of time to understand what you want to be known for, what you want to be seen as personally and how that relates to the work you do. I think it's quite a deep, profound question actually, what do you want to be known for? What do you want to be seen as? I think from a brand perspective, if you're the leader of an organization there is an expectation that you are leading the way and there are some values around that organization. But people aren't really interested in your thought leadership if it's just purely about, this is our business, this is our brand, this is what we do, this is how great we are, because then it becomes promotional almost. But people are interested if you've got a view around, let's say, women in business or more equity around the gender balance, or LGBTQ or something.
Michelle Carvill:
Or saving the planet, or lots of other elements that ... I like aligning the personal values of who you are as a person with the work you do. How do you come across this, Amanda, in the work that you do with your leaders? Is it a dilemma, are they afraid to be who they really are because they don't want to show those values? Or are you finding that people are starting to balance that?
Amanda Downs:
I think that genuinely it's still a dilemma for a lot of people. Whenever you put anything out there ever, open your mouth in a meeting or certainly put anything out on LinkedIn to a wider audience ... a very wide audience, obviously, it makes you a little vulnerable, doesn't it? One of the things I found is that actually the more appropriately vulnerable I am in my digital strategy, the more it resonates with people. So actually talking about women in leadership, talking about the sorts of things that impact women in leadership ... by the way, they impact men in leadership as well. Things like self-esteem and what your messages and rising to the best you can be, and so on, that does impact women. It is one of my missions in life, is to support women in business, actually anybody, to be able to rise to the level that they aspire to for themselves. I think really, that's my mission. What I do is, I've created myself a ... I mean, it is a higher purpose. It's always been there, actually, and I've only just been able to articulate it in the last few years on LinkedIn, is that we're all selling. We're all influencing, and being able to do that in the right way ... LinkedIn is one way, being able to do that in the right way is back to this pipeline.
Amanda Downs:
It means that the energy you feel and the energy you use to ... in business and in life actually, comes out in the way you want it to. Your impact is the same as your intention. I think that's critical. I think that's critical. I don't know whether that answers your question or not.
Michelle Carvill:
It does. It does. Yeah. I mean, like you say, I think it is a dilemma. There's a lot of, people aren't sure how they want to show up. How they want to show up. I think when you have a role that's clearer, and you know what your role is. But how you then communicate your views online and on what that means, it can be really difficult. That has to be a challenge.
Amanda Downs:
Yeah, let me just expand on that a little bit then. Let me tell you what's helped me and what I do use with my coaching clients.
Michelle Carvill:
Yeah, that'd be useful.
Amanda Downs:
The first thing is, and this sounds very leadershippy, consultancy, but it isn't actually. The first is, just imagine if you were standing or sitting in front of somebody and they ask you what you're all about, if you are living into your ... I mean, we talk about values a lot and we talk about value proposition a lot. But if you think about those as being the same thing, if you're living into your values ... and there's an amazing book by a lady called Brené Brown, which some of your listeners may have already read called, Dare to Lead. She has an amazing chapter, which helps you to get your head around where your key values are as a leader. It's a really good piece of personal development to be able to do that, is to think about what your values are and then to think about, for what would that proposition be? What is your personal value proposition? I know in your books, in your work, you talk a lot about your personal brand. The thing is, actually a personal brand isn't, oh, I'm going to sell myself and I want people to all come to our consultancy or all buy my book or all buy our product X, Y and Z. It's actually about you personally as an individual and as a business person.
Amanda Downs:
So, yeah, I did that work and I actually came up with ... Brené only allows you two values, which is really difficult let me say. It takes a while. I came up with two values, which I then use now in everything I do. It's almost like a lens that I work through with emails, digitally and [terrest 00:18:31], really actually. Those two values are authenticity and respect.
Michelle Carvill:
Nice.
Amanda Downs:
What does that mean? It means, no longer do I need to be that 1980s power-shouldered, pretending to be a man, sales woman in a sales men's world, which I started off as in the '80s. No longer do I need to pretend that I am ... I don't know, somebody who speaks brilliantly articulately and brilliantly profoundly every time they open their mouths. I'm not, I'm Amanda from Leeds. My mom was a [din 00:19:17] lady and my dad was a butcher and I've got stuff to say. So with authenticity, there's me, authentic. Then the respect thing is critical. So the work and the reading, and the learning and the training that I've had myself as a leader in the last 10 years or so, and the work that I try to support others with as leaders, is all around that, the respect for yourself and respect for others in life. So we talk about in our leadership work, the twin attitudes of positive regard and genuineness. For me, the positive regard element is what I mean by respect. Now, what do I mean by that? What I mean is that I have positive regard for myself that I'm trying to show up and do the best I can under the circumstances, and then to have positive regard for others.
Amanda Downs:
I mean, I think they talk about it in their coaching filters, unconditional positive regard? We are all turning up to work especially now in this world crisis. We are all turning up to work to do the best we possibly can. Therefore, positive regard for others says, I know that you are turning up to do your best. Therefore, I'm going to have positive regard, even if what you say or do doesn't resonate with me or rubs me up the wrong way, or I disagree with. That's all fine, because that's your world and your paradigm and I have regard for you as an individual and as a human being. Now, if you think ... and I genuinely try to think to myself, if ever anything just jaws with me I think, where are they at, or what's happening for them in their world? And [inaudible 00:21:11] now is more so than ever, hey? Now more so than ever. As we hear about people in supermarkets and we hear of workers and school children, and old people who are ... shutting down, California is locked down just as we speak today, the 20th of March.
Amanda Downs:
As of Saturday it may well be that our older population is confined to their homes as well. But the positive regard that we bring into the world via whatever social media ... and those other social media platforms are becoming more and more critical to people. Things like Zoom, which is what we're on now. To have positive regard for what's happening in other people's lives is the whole way we're going to get through this particular ... well, particular, it is very particular, this pandemic. Because actually it's positive regard for others that is going to save us, because most of us are going to get through this okay.
Michelle Carvill:
I mean, that is, when you think about ... I mean, it comes back to very, very deep values, isn't it? It's almost like, do you want to think about others? That selfless and we're all in this together is a great way of ... it extends beyond the boardroom. It extends beyond the organization. It's a world value, isn't it?
Amanda Downs:
It does. It is absolutely a world value. As part of my thinking for this podcast, Michelle, I was doing a bit of research yesterday. One of the things I came up with ... I must send you this, actually. One of the things that popped up for me is an article, a whitepaper by Kantar. Kantar have used AI to research what's going out just on Instagram actually. Instagram is not really my bag yet, who knows? Never say never. But it's not really my bag. But what they've done is, they've used AI to watch what the messaging is and what the visuals are, the cues that are coming up from people who are going into self-isolation and social distancing. It's absolutely fascinating. I've got it in front of me here. I really think that it is relevant to leaders as well as ... they're doing it for brands. Kantar is a consumer research business more than anything and they're doing it for brands. But listen, just listen to these. There are six key takeaways, they're saying, for brands. If you think about it, these takeaways are the same for leaders.
Amanda Downs:
Number one is, get your tone right and take the cues from people that you serve. Now, next week on Tuesday I'm going to be running a virtual session for our Uspire network around exactly that; how are you going to get your tone and style right for your teams and for your customers when you're all working from home? It's about taking the temperature of what the mood and the sentiment is in your teams and with your tribes, whatever those tribes might be, which is really interesting. So get the tone right. The other one is, give people something to look forward to.
Michelle Carvill:
Yes, hope.
Amanda Downs:
Yeah. So give people hope. Again, on LinkedIn there's lots and lots of doom and gloom. On Facebook there's particularly lots of doom and gloom. Lots of, oh, can you believe it, type of posting digitally, which I can see already is changing. The mood is changing. So it's all very well saying, it's all the political leaders' fault or it's all whoever's fault. The fact is, we're here and therefore we need to look forward and move forward. So it's about reminding your tribes about the future and actually showing them there are some things going to be happening in the future, which are going to be ... they are all going to happen. That was number two. The third one was, help people to be resourceful. So support your teams, your tribes, your people and your customers, particularly customers. Again, we're doing a [fab 00:25:49] of work around how to help sales people to show up from home. Because how easy is it to kind of wallow around at home and think, all right, I'll focus on something other than my business? How easy is that going to be when the children are all going to be at home from next week, and so on? It's going to be very easy, let me tell you.
Amanda Downs:
So actually to help your customers to be resourceful and help your team to be resourceful, in terms of giving them ideas about how they might adapt.
Michelle Carvill:
Yes, structure.
Amanda Downs:
Yes, all those things. We've seen some of that happening already. Also talking about how you've adapted, how I've adapted, and so on. We have spent huge amounts of time checking out all of the video conferencing platforms to see what would be the quickest and easiest to bring people on. We're speaking to all of our clients about, how can we support you digitally? Have you thought of this, this, this and this, in terms of making sure your sales teams and your leaders are showing up in the right way through that pipe? And so on. The number four is, it says here, Kantar call it, deliver moments of comfort, calmness and security. Excuse me, I just need to cough. So how can you comfort people? One of the things I've been doing is sending out notes to clients who've paid our bills, to just tell them how comforting and how secure that makes us feel and to demonstrate that absolute gratitude for their loyalty. Actually, it gives people a moment of joy. A number of people have said, oh, thank you so much for saying that. It's a little oasis in a sea of chaos.
Michelle Carvill:
It's so funny, yesterday ... I mean, we've been a virtual agency for about three years now so we're pretty slick on the tech. We've been using all of the technology to run a digital agency remotely, like I say, for three years, so we're hugely dependent on all of our meetings by Zoom with the team. Not all of us with the clients, but a lot of us with clients by Zoom. We connect as a team daily, hourly, half hourly, by WhatsApp. There's always constant communications going through on our team Carvill app with one thing or another happening. We also have WhatsApp groups for their clients and with other agencies we work with, so WhatsApp is an amazing resource for us. So we're using Zoom. Trello, our lives are managed on Trello. All of our projects are managed by Trello. We use Trello. Really, those three tools along with Microsoft ... we can't forget we're using their email platform, Microsoft 365 and we all share various bits and pieces around there when we need to. But these tools, I don't think I've ever thought of them as ... I just paid for the service and that's been it. It's just been facilitators, really.
Michelle Carvill:
Yesterday I felt totally compelled just to tweet them all and say, "Thank you." Just thank you, because I don't think I've ever felt grateful about the fact they're keeping a business running as normal. If they went down, our business pretty much would be challenged. Yeah, so it's a time of reflection, isn't it, as well? Delivering these moments of comfort and security, it's a bit of a reflect on the gratitude and wow, look at this tech that is keeping us connected. In all of this awfulness and uncertainty, there are some constants. Some of those, yes, the birds are singing and the sun is coming out, and that's all wonderful and beautiful. Spring is ... the seasons are turning and that will all continue. But there is also some other constants that we just don't think about. Yes, I love that, Amanda because it is. I felt totally compelled to be very grateful for things recently.
Amanda Downs:
Yeah. As I say, as leaders, delivering some supporting by talking about how you are being emotionally buoyed by those sorts of things and helping others to do it, is just really important. There are new tribes being created in our village, for a start around helping the elderly and supporting each other with the toilet roll amnesty and goodness knows what else. It's really helpful. It makes you feel strong, actually.
Michelle Carvill:
It does.
Amanda Downs:
Let me just talk you through five and six. Number five, in terms of Kantar's takeaways is, helping people to learn new skills and set new goals. Actually, we've all got a desire in our self-isolation to be better. I don't know about you, but I am in unbelievably a nesting instinct. I'm looking at everything thinking, well, we could change that, and we could empty that cupboard. We could do a bit of painting, and we could come out more strongly as a family team and as a business team. So we're learning massively all the time and that moving forward in terms of creativity ... whatever that's going to mean for you in your home life and in your work life, to be creative about what to do next, rather than sit there thinking, oh, dear. Again, this comes back to customers, how you are going to help your customers to be as creative as they can be in these circumstances? Then the final one was, strip back and focus on the bare essentials. We all know that as businesses we need to do that. However, there will be some bare essentials that we do need to continue, we need to continue to move forward. So what are the essentials that my business and I as a leader need to continue to deliver?
Amanda Downs:
I'm going back to my values and I'm going back to my mission in life, which is around helping people to stuff themselves into that energy pipeline so the energy comes bursting out with sparkles to customers.
Michelle Carvill:
Yeah, fantastic. I love those. Yeah, please do send that article.
Amanda Downs:
Yeah. I will. Yeah, I will.
Michelle Carvill:
I'll put a link to it in the show notes as well for everyone. Perfect. Great. I mean, here we are. So coming to the end of this conversation, which I've loved, Amanda. Thank you for your time today in coming on board and sharing these insights, and being very open and authentic. Showing up here authentically, that's wonderful to hear. I like to end the podcast with three, very quick fire, learn about the leader style questions. I think you've already given one of these to us when you told us about your best piece of advice that you've been given to date. You just said a great piece of advice was about, just be yourself. Just show up, just be authentic. That is for sure great advice. It takes a while for people to get comfortable in their own skin, really, to be able to do that sometimes. I've got two more questions for you then. If you could change one thing in the world, what would it be? A good question.
Amanda Downs:
I think I'm going to go back to what I said earlier about positive regard and genuineness, those attitudes. If everybody in the world could think about the personal, the situation in front of them, before how they're going to react to it ... and think about that individual as a human with genuine positive regard, then the response that we give to each other ... to our teams, to our customers and to the world, would be a better thing.
Michelle Carvill:
Yeah, 100%. Love that. Amanda, I know you like reading, like me. Books, which book have you read recently that's inspired you?
Amanda Downs:
Oh, now, that's quite a difficult one because I do read a lot of books. Let me think now. I think the one that has inspired me the most in the last few months has been ... it's not an old book actually. It's a really quite famous book by a lady called Nancy Kline. Nancy Kline's first book was called, The Thinking Environment, so Time to Think actually. The research called Time to Think, as she talks about a thinking environment. The thinking environment, the main premise is to allow yourself, to allow others, time to think. So when you ask a question, zip, and listen really deeply to what they are saying rather than how you're going to respond. Then she also ... it's a fantastic coaching question actually, she gives this question, which is superb, which is about ... for example, if you've got somebody who's saying, well, the problem is X, Y or Z ... for example, the problem is, we can't get the products out to market because nobody is going to show up because I personally find that I'm really struggling, is to be able to turn that on its head and say, if you were completely calm and relaxed and being proactive in your day-to-day leadership, what would you do next?
Amanda Downs:
I don't know, I'm asking myself these questions every morning as I wake up to the reality of what's happening to us right now in the world. So if you could change anything you wanted to, if you could help as many people in the villages you can ... if you could be the best you could be on LinkedIn so it helps people to be able to influence their businesses and their customers, what would you do?
Michelle Carvill:
I have to say, it's a sensational book. It changed the way we run meetings. We give everybody their space, to hold their space, to talk with silence and just deeply listen. It changes the conversation because people actually start to really take time and listen to what the other person is saying. It's phenomenal. It's profound. So thank you for bringing that into the podcast. I'll make sure the link to that is in the show notes as well. Amanda, thank you. It's been a joy and it has been a joy. This is one of these moments; a moment of comfort, a moment of security for me in this podcast to connect with people like you and have these wonderful conversations. So thank you so much for being on the podcast. How can people find out more about the work that you're doing, Uspire are doing? How can we find out more?
Amanda Downs:
Okay. If anybody wants to contact me at all, my email address is amanda@uspire.co.uk. You can find me, Amanda Downs, on LinkedIn. Our website is www.uspire.co.uk. Please do link in with me. Please do ask me if you do find yourselves in a bit of a downward spiral one day, just give me a shout because we've all been there. We all will be there in the next few weeks. We can help each other to get through this.
Michelle Carvill:
Brilliant. That's a beautiful gesture. Thank you so much, Amanda. It's been a joy and I look forward to catching up with you face-to-face when we're allowed, very soon.
Amanda Downs:
Thank you, Michelle. I'm really grateful to you for having me.
Michelle Carvill:
You've been listening to the Get Social Connected Leader podcast. Thank you to my guest and indeed, thank you to you for tuning in. Please, do feel free to share the podcast with colleagues and friends who you think will enjoy it, and indeed, subscribe to TuneIn for more episodes. You'll find the podcast on all the usual platforms and all episodes are also on our website, carvillcreative.co.uk/podcasts. You also find some really useful digital and social resources on that site too, so be sure to check those out. For now from me, Michelle Carvill, your host on the podcast, thank you so much for tuning in and goodbye. Oh, PS. If you're a business leader with something to share around digital and social technologies and you're keen to be a guest on the podcast, then I'd love to hear from you. You can email me, michelle@carvillcreative.co.uk.