Get Social - The Connected Leader Podcast - Gordon Beattie-Founder & Chairman Beattie Communications

Michelle: Hello and welcome to the Get Social Connected Leader Podcast. Where I, Michelle Carvill interview business leaders around the practicalities of how in this hyper connected digital age, they are embracing digital technologies to tune in and connect and communicate.
Michelle: You can find all episodes of the podcast, together with show notes via our website carvillcreative.co.uk/podcasts.
Michelle: In this episode of the Get Social Connected Leader Podcast, I'm delighted to interview Gordon Beattie, a former journalist and author of five books. Gordon is chairman and founder of Beattie Communications in the UK, Beattie Tartan in North America and the only series of marketing boutiques whose brands include Only Health, Only Retail, Only Student Recruitment, Only Crisis and Only Marketing.
Michelle: So Gordon, thank you so much for being on the podcast.
Gordon Beattie: Pleasure.
Michelle: So we've never actually spoken before, but we've engaged and interacted before both on social media and then through Indeed email. Because when I was writing Get Social, I wanted to interview people, leaders that were out there really doing social and active and championing it from a leadership perspective. I came across you on both LinkedIn and Twitter and I thought I'd really love to interview Gordon. So that's kinda how we met. That's why I wanted to bring you onto the live kind of interview Gordon. To talk about your, I suppose how you got started with social media and your activity and why you use it.
Gordon Beattie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). I got started with social media, probably about ten, twelve years ago when thinking back. I think Twitter was the first platform I was on. Then I went on to LinkedIn and eventually Facebook. These are the three platforms I'm personally involved in.
Michelle: Was it for personal reasons, to stay in touch with your family or did you see the opportunities as a business connecting tool back then?
Gordon Beattie: Yeah, it was purely for business that I was interested in it, and still am. Although I'm on Facebook I only do business stuff, I don't do personal stuff. I've got to say, I'm not that interested in reading what everyone else is doing for their dinner tonight. Therefore, I only post business stuff.
Michelle: Okay. You have been obviously social on the channels for a number of years. You help organizations don't you? With their marketing.
Gordon Beattie: Yeah.
Michelle: [inaudible 00:03:11]
Gordon Beattie: Mm-hmm (affirmative) We work with a lot of clients, basically to raise their profile on social media. It works for our clients and it works for us. The honest truth is that we probably generate millions of pounds worth of business every year by working for our clients and ourselves.
Michelle: From a communications perspective, I mean I'm an advocate for social channels because I think that it allows us to grow networks. So rather than just broadcast, we're really able to connect with individuals that we ordinarily wouldn't have been able to connect with. Is that the same essence that you see going through both the work you do yourself on social and indeed with your clients?
Gordon Beattie: We do two things on social, we do social I would call advertising and we do what I would call social communications. Both work hand in hand. We spend money for ourselves and our clients on social media advertising products [inaudible 00:04:33] et cetera. We also spend a lot of time just posting updates that we think that clients might be interested in.
Michelle: So you've separated those two out very clearly between the paid social and the organic conversational communication social.
Gordon Beattie: Exactly. Exactly.
Michelle: And how have your clients embraced it over the years? 'Cause I know for myself, when we help organizations get started with social, all those years ago there was a lot of resistance. There was a lot of skepticism. Do you think things have changed now Gordon? Are you seeing that people are embracing them more freely?
Gordon Beattie: I do think things have changed. I think someone who's very responsible for that is a guy called [inaudible 00:05:29] whom I'm sure a lot of listeners will know. I don't agree with a lot of what you said in the social is everything. It's not everything, but let me tell you, it can make a huge impact on any business and any brand. I do think it's been warmly embraced by brands large and small all around the world.
Michelle: I suppose the proof is in the pudding isn't it. Unless your doing it, you can't really reap the rewards from doing it. I think a lot of people were more skeptical about it because it was a bit of the unknown. But of course these channels, like you sat for yourself, you've been using them for ten, twelve years. Most organizations now have had this opportunity haven't they to be engaging for quite a long time. We're learning more about how to optimize these channels.
Gordon Beattie: I think you've got to know which channels will work for you. For instance, there's absolutely no point in posting business stuff on Facebook unless your putting money behind it. Organic doesn't work in Facebook. You've got to open your purse and put money behind it. Having said that, it does work on LinkedIn both organic and paid.
Michelle: So within your organization then, because your serving clients with these services as well as doing it yourself, and utilizing it for your own networking and your own brand awareness. Your also obviously using it as an organization. Is that something that has been readily embraced throughout the organization? Is there training throughout the organization? When people come on board to say "this is what we do, this is how we help our clients" , how is it rolled within the organization?
Gordon Beattie: If you're talking about taking on graduates, I would suggest that they know as much, sometimes more than we do. I think that's the great thing about social. Your talking about training, we don't do any formal training whatsoever. We do on the job training, but we don't do any formal training for our people. We spend a lot of money on training our staff. We've got for instance, the Beattie Book Camp that our staff spend two, three days every year at. People attending the book camp do all sorts of things and learn all sorts of things. But one of the things that we don't actually train up on is social, simply because all our people are so active on it. Some more so than others of course but as you would expect in a marketing agency, social is very much important for every client we serve.
Michelle: That's interesting, I suppose it's just rather than there be a formal training its just an inherent of course everybody's using social. It's almost deemed as a natural thing is it?
Gordon Beattie: The one area I suppose where we do on the job training is basically making sure that we're optimizing things on YouTube. YouTube has been a real new business generator for us. All we want to do is basically encourage people again, to understand that it's not just a matter of shoving off a radio and crossing your fingers hoping to get an audience. It's a matter of optimizing your audience and actually again, putting money behind your campaign.
Michelle: Mm-hmm (affirmative) I think that's a valid point. Because there's a lot of organizations, there's a lot of people that think it's almost like a tick box, you know "Oh that's it we've done that now, we've put the posts up, tick the box, that's done". and they're kind of missing the whole strategic point about what its all about growing an audience. Sometimes you can do that organically within a community kinda network focused organically. But a lot of the time, realistically, now particularly external facing channels you are dependent aren't you on the paid aspects?
Gordon Beattie: You totally are. If you look at most company videos, at the very most there'll be about three hundred views. These videos have probably cost somewhere from two thousand pounds to umpteenth thousand pounds. At the end of the day you know hardly anyone sees them. They're a waste of money most of the time. The only way you're gonna make video work on YouTube is by putting money behind it.
Michelle: Yeah, and I think that's a lot with Facebook, like you said, It's pointless just being engaged just on Facebook these days when it's really become a paid advertising channel.
Gordon Beattie: It has and it will become even more so I think as time goes on. I do see for instance Facebook and some of the social channels taking on traditional broadcasters. That's gonna be an interesting view for us all going forward.
Michelle: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Yes, I see that's happening more and more isn't it. Some of the ways that I would advocate that Facebook is useful for businesses regardless of sizes is the community aspect. They have Facebook Workplace, which is their commercial kind of internal social. And some great stuff comes out of that. And if your not using the Facebook Workplace application then of course people organically create groups don't they within Facebook? And it's interesting just last week Facebook came out and said that there's gonna be more of a focus for them, personally as a business on the whole grouped community thing. Because that's really almost like creating lots of micro social networks.
Gordon Beattie: Yes exactly. We use them as a company. I personally don't but we use them as a company. They are very good for collaboration and all sorts of things.
Michelle: Yeah I mean it is. It can often uncover some real gems within the organization. So coming back to you Gordon, because your active. One of the questions I often get asked is around balancing as a leader your personal life and your business life. You've said at the outset here that you really do focus predominately, purely on business. Do you let any of your, the Gordon on the weekend, come into the content that your sharing?
Gordon Beattie: I don't really because you know one of the things that I don't like and one of the things that I think is very dangerous about sites like Facebook, is where you showcase your house, your lavish lifestyle qif you've got one, your exotic car if you've got one, your beautiful wife if you've got one and at the end of the day if you end up in the press or the media on social media for the wrong reasons, it can be an absolute disaster. We have a reputation management business called Only Crisis. Often we are called to "rescue" people who have been to vociferous on Facebook or Instagram. [crosstalk 00:14:18] I'm well aware of the dangers Michelle and that's why I personally don't talk very much at all about my personal life.
Michelle: Because of the business that you're in and some of the stories that you've seen?
Gordon Beattie: Yeah, I suppose we know better than most what the problems that can be caused by having a high profile on social media. I also find it hard to understand people who want to go on about personal grief publicly. It's one of the things that never fails to amaze me. People who go onto social media and say "this time twenty year ago I lost my son or my daughter" and you know they grieve in public. For me that's a no-no. I want to keep these things to myself, not seek public sympathy.
Michelle: I suppose that comes back to the rich fabric of our society isn't it. That some people do want to do that and some people want to be part of that and there are lots of groups online that people join for those very reason so that they feel part of the community and their not alone. But yes it can be awkward can't it? And uncomfortable for others.
Gordon Beattie: Yeah I find it awkward, but maybe that's because of my background. Being brought up in Scotland where basically if you're gonna cry, you don't do it in public. So I don't know, but personally you would never find me on there grieving about something that happened personally in my life.
Michelle: No, absolutely not. So for you it's about business, it's about networks, internally with your own organization. Obviously it's about serving your clients effectively and keeping up to speed with everything. So what have you learned over the years Gordon, from your many years of being on social? Is there anything that you would say if I was starting out and I was ready as a leader to be getting into social, because there seems to be, we have our leaders that are very comfortable out there being very transparent and very visible and then there's a whole lot, way more that are "that's not my job, that's not what I need to do, I don't want to do it". And they're uncomfortable potentially doing it, there's a bit of fear. What would you say to somebody, what advise would you say?
Gordon Beattie: Well I have noticed that a lot of chief executives of big companies, a lot more seem to be embracing social media now, than in the past and I think that's a good thing. But, you've just got to take a breath pill and basically say "If I'm leading an organization I should lead it from the front because my posts are going to be seen by my employees, my suppliers, and my customers and therefore I need to be out there". Now if for instance you don't know exactly how to do it, then that's not a problem with the people in your organization that do. But as a chief executive you need to frame the [inaudible 00:18:07] and you need to guide the strategy as to what you want to see online and in social media especially.
Michelle: Absolutely and I think that I know myself, I've mentioned this a few times in posts and things that I've shared. I've actually coached a couple of people anonymously because they haven't felt comfortable talking to people internally. But it makes sense doesn't it to do that kind of cross referral of knowledge. And like you say, you've got young graduates that really get the tech coming in but they don't necessarily understand the strategic aspect of communicating from a business perspective. They've been using it in day to day lives. So that marriage of the two can really help, that reverse mentoring aspect.
Gordon Beattie: Yeah, I mean I post stuff on Instagram but I don't actually do it myself. I've got someone doing it for me because basically I don't find Instagram user friendly for how I like to work. Having said that, I've also got clients that are in industries where they can be public targets. What I advise them to do is, lets shoot a video, we can edit that video and then we can post it on social media. So that all that's going out there is something that your happy with and I do think that caution for a chief executive is as important as putting out lots of content.
Michelle: Absolutely, I agree. In many ways I think it's a choice. You're right, leading from the front is an important part of it and being visible and transparent. There's a lot of talk about the future of leadership and it's all changing and you have to be on these channels. But there are like you say, there are areas and sensitivities in business where it's just not relevant or applicable for the CEO to be out there visible. In some cases it is and great if it fits and it works, why wouldn't you but if it doesn't and there is that, the like you say there is that option of controlling. There can still be stuff going out there like a press release scenario done into the social channels but it's completely controlled and managed within the coms teams.
Gordon Beattie: I do think there are huge dangers about being involved in social. There are huge benefits as well. I can tell you a situation involving the chief executive of a global group company that we look after. His wife was posting all sorts of things about their lavish lifestyle and he was posting all sorts of things about the business aspects and what was happening within the business. There was a problem there because he's getting across the business message and she's saying "What a wonderful lifestyle I've got, look at the champagne I'm drinking, look at where I am today, look at my yacht et cetera et cetera" , and we had to have a word with the chief executive and say "Look, you need to make sure that as a family you are complementing each other".
Michelle: Yes! Diplomatic. That's interesting isn't it? But internally like you say as well, leading from the front is important so whilst external social media channels can potentially be optional can be hugely beneficial but you have to be cautious and you have to be aligned with all the messaging that is going out there and aware of what's going out there. Internally engaging your teams and being visible and engaging with your team and being accessible to your team using social technologies as well. That can be a really useful thing can't it? Because Let's say your organization is dispersed across the world, its very difficult for you to converse with every single employee. But if you're connected through an internal, digital network or internal social network that gives you that visibility and that opportunity to network with your employees, is that something that you advocate to your clients as well Gordon?
Gordon Beattie: I've got to say it's not necessarily something that I do. I'm quite content with email. Maybe that's because I'm and old stick in the mud but we use channels internally and we obviously have to collaborate with clients, again on these channels. I recently asked my people "What do you think? Will it be beneficial?" And the message I got back was yes, definitely. And a few people came back to me and said "Why are you not using them Gordon?" So there you go, perhaps if you come back in a years time Michelle, I will be active. But right now I'm not.
Michelle: It's interesting isn't it that the demand from the team is that question "Why aren't you using them?" And that does definitely come through. Brilliant. So anything that you'd wish you'd known at the outset Gordon? Anything that would have made your life easier?
Gordon Beattie: Well, I do think that earlier you start, the easier it is. If you aren't a chief executive who's not been active and your getting on in life then what you want to make sure you do is that you get somewhere there to hold your hand. Either someone internally or an agency doing it for you and eventually you'll learn to do it yourself and that's what you want to do. If you don't have time to do it then continue with internal or external support.
Michelle: That very much came through when I was interviewing these different people doing different things dependent upon their own skill set, their preference and that's the beauty of it isn't it? That you can mold it into a way, there are no rules. You can make this work in a way that works for you and fits within your schedules and your life.
Gordon Beattie: You're dead right That there are no rules. I read all sorts of guff about social media for instance, as to what time you should be posting your updates and all this and I just shake my head because most of it is guff you know. But there are so many experts out there experts [inaudible 00:26:04] that you can easily be led astray by someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. You on the other hand, know exactly what you're talking about and I would certainly say that if I was looking for someone to advise me on social media I would have no problem in coming to you and saying "What should I be doing?"
Michelle: Thank you Gordon. Well I was delighted you read my book and I was delighted you loved it and that's wonderful to hear so thank you very much.
Michelle: So a little bit before we end, these questions are taking you away from digital and social media now for awhile and its just a little bit about you. So these are quick fire questions just so everybody gets a bit of a flavorette about you and I learn a few things to. So I'm gonna ask you these three questions is that okay Gordon?
Gordon Beattie: No problem.
Michelle: Okay great. So some of them are pretty big questions but we're just gonna go with top of the head stuff.
Michelle: If you could change one thing In the world what would it be?
Gordon Beattie: There's lots of things i would like to change, I would like to abolish politicians for a start. The one thing that i would actually say top of my list would be, there' only two things that matter in life. Health and happiness. And if you get both that you're gonna live a fulfilled life. And that's what I would wish, I don't have any children but that' what I would wish for them if I had.
Michelle: Okay, beautiful. What about books? Have you read a book recently that's inspired you that you can share?
Gordon Beattie: The terrible thing is, if I'm reading a book it's only usually a novel. In all honesty I'm too busy writing books. I tried to write a book a year, to actually read books ... The last book I read was yours. So since this is all about social media I would encourage anyone listening to this podcast to read your book Michelle.
Michelle: You know people are gonna think I've paid you to come on this podcast Gordon. This is perfect incidental marketing, brilliant. Last but definitely not least, what's the best piece of advice you've been given to date?
Gordon Beattie: It's an ancient piece of advice and it very simply is, if you think you can or you think you can't, you're probably right.
Michelle: Love it, wonderful, fabulous.
Gordon Beattie: I do think that if you think you can achieve real success in the world, you can. If you think your gonna fail, you will.
Michelle: yeah, one hundred percent. One hundred percent with you on that mindset is a wonderful thing isn't it? Gordon, it's been an absolute joy to eventually speak to you. I know we've had a couple of phone calls but this is wonderful to actually have a chat about what you're doing with social so thank you so much for your insights. Thank you so much for your time. It's been a pleasure to have you on the podcast.
Gordon Beattie: My pleasure as well Michelle. Thank you very very much, thank you.
Michelle: You've been listening to the Get Social Connected Leader Podcast. Thank you to my guest and indeed thank you to you for tuning in. Please do feel free to share the podcast with colleagues and friends who you think will enjoy it and indeed subscribe to tune into more episodes. You'll find the podcast on all the usual platforms and all episodes are also on our website carvillcreative.co.uk/podcasts. You'll also find some really useful digital and social resources on that site too, so be sure to check those out. So for now, from me, Michelle Carvill, your host on the podcast, thank you so much for tuning in and goodbye.
Michelle: Oh PS, if your a business leader with something to share around digital and social technology and your keen to be a guest on the podcast then I'd love to hear from you. You can email me, michelle@carvillcreative.co.uk.