Get Social Connected Leader Podcast, Jack Parsons, CEO of The Youth group
Michelle Carvill:
Hello and welcome to the Get Social Connected Leader Podcast, where I, Michelle Carvill interview business leaders around the practicalities of how, in this hyper-connected digital age, they are embracing digital technologies to tune in and connect and communicate. You can find all episodes of the podcast together with show notes via our website, carvillcreative.co.uk/podcasts.
Michelle Carvill:
In this episode of the Get Social Connected Leader Podcast, I'm delighted to interview Jack Parsons. Jack is an award-winning young entrepreneur, public speaker and subject expert on youth, publicly known as the UK's Chief Youth Officer. Jack's been honoured with a number of awards over the years, including Young Digital Leader of the Year, The 100 Faces of a Vibrant Economy, Most Connected Young Entrepreneur, 50 Top Kindest Leaders, and Top 10 Young UK Entrepreneurs to Watch. Jack is currently the CEO of The Youth Group, which is building the world's largest, most connected marketplace and community for young people, with the sole aim to help improve the odds for those young people across the commonwealth to achieve their full potential in work. So Jack Parsons, it's great to have you here on the Connected Leader Podcast.
Jack Parsons:
Thank you for asking me to come on. I'm sitting here with my coat on, it's freezing. It's getting cold, isn't it, out there?
Michelle Carvill:
It's getting cold and it's December so you are going to be my last podcast for 2020, so I'm really looking forward to this conversation. Jack, this is the first time we've actually met and even now we're meeting digitally. But I feel like I've known you, I've been following you, we've had conversations online, on Twitter for a number of years. Do you want to give me a little bit of a background about how you started using social media? And I know you may be using it in your personal life for many, many years, given your demographic, but what about from a business and leadership perspective? Let's start with that.
Jack Parsons:
Yeah, we've been connected for a good five years, when I wasn't running around looking 15 as a young leader. I've aged a bit since then, but still young. So social media, why did I start using social media? Social media has been a real fundamental and important platform and tool for me. I'm not educated. I don't have a degree. I don't know all the answers. I'm a big believer from going from having all the answers to all the questions. Social media has given me a platform to ask those questions to great leaders who use it to learn from. I use Twitter as social media, LinkedIn, as a way to ask questions to those who've been there and done it, as number one.
Jack Parsons:
Then secondly, I use social media as a reference check. I went out for a walk the other day and lockdown was over and I looked around and I said, "Oh, this is a bit quiet. Have we gone back into a lockdown in the middle of London or something?" Because considering the day we came out of lockdown, everything was busy. [crosstalk 00:03:25] to instead of going to news or typing into Google, I went straight to the hashtags on Twitter to see. If there's something going on, you can just go and check the hashtags. So that's what I did. I use Twitter as a reference to keep updated. And I'm not about looking at the broadcast, I'm more worried about what people are saying in the responses, in the replies, because that's where you can really understand public opinion and where people are actually, mindsets are. Around lockdown, around politics, around youth, around diversity, so I use it as a reference check.
Jack Parsons:
Then thirdly, I use it to inspire myself. To inspire me to want to continue doing what I'm doing. I live alone. I don't have a good relationship with family. So I'm, they call it a lone wolf. So Twitter and LinkedIn and the other platforms are a place for me to be inspired and meet everyday role models like yourself. Inspired by the books you've read and all the work you do around social. To be inspired to say, "Oh, that's interesting," because I know that the business landscape is so huge. Being a leader, there's so many different types of leadership skills and so much that we've got to learn. I only know so much and I love that, and I call it the duvet flip, what gets you out of bed in the morning to flip that duvet to want to learn more and grow. So I'm an upcoming leader. I've got a lot to learn. The things that I do learn, I like to share and give back. Those are the three main reasons why I believe and why I use social media as a leader.
Michelle Carvill:
I love that Jack, because I think it's only now after all these years that I was listening to a podcast the other day or a webinar on the marketing society and Hootsuite was sharing a report that they'd done. It just came out, their 2020 social media report. They were showcasing that brands and organizations now really have started to understand the role that they have to play. It isn't about broadcasting. It is about listening. It's about that temperature check. It's about understanding the pulse, what is going on. So it's refreshing that you say that for you, you are the epitome of using social as social is meant to be used.
Michelle Carvill:
In my opinion, it's a connecting tool. It's an inquiring tool. It's a listening tool. It's great for that inspiration, isn't it, and to connect? I know you've connected with a number of people who have not only inspired you, but you've gone on to work in partnerships and do some really incredible things for your organization through. Talk me through a little bit about that, how the networking side of it has gone for you through social media. Because as a leader and as a business owner, and as somebody championing a movement, bringing other people on board and finding the right people is critical, right?
Jack Parsons:
Totally, and building a network and building a community through social as been probably number two on the reason why I've been able to achieve what I achieved. Number one is the ambitious and the get up and go attitude. Number two has been building that network. I was named the Most Connected Young Entrepreneur across Europe in 2017, '18 and '19.
Michelle Carvill:
Incredible.
Jack Parsons:
I'm not going to win it this year because I've not been connected to anyone. I've been in my little bubble, and everyone has, kind of thing. Look, I believe some of the most... You can make friendships from the network that you build on social. You can create new opportunity in terms of business opportunities, but also you can create a support network and I have used social media to build that network. I never really liked jumping on the call. That you only can get... When you're young, and whoever you are, whatever field and whatever industry you're in, you only get invited to certain rooms. And I'm a big believer in we're all standing in front of a curtain and behind that curtain is access to a network and information. And you can get behind that curtain and get into that room if you know someone who knows someone. How do you get to know that someone who knows someone? Via networking and building your brand and also being true to who you are.
Jack Parsons:
The first thing I did when I started wanting to network is one, listen. Listen. When you build your network, you listen and you clarify, then you respond. And you respond with, "How can I help you? What can I do?" My network what I've built, and I've got 60% of the Footsie 100 in my phone book now, and I've not done that by blanketing and trying to reach out to everyone. I've done that meaningful. A lot of marketers talk about meaningful relationships and building meaningful brands, and how can you do that in such a way where it's meaningful? I believe you can only do that if you understand what your worth is when you wake up in the morning. So what you stand for, but also have real big values that you won't compromise.
Jack Parsons:
Now, you also have to lead with kindness. I was lucky enough last year to be named by the Financial Times, the top 50 kindest leaders in the country. I was so humbled, I even had a tear in my eye. I don't cry often. It takes a lot for me to cry from the upbringing I had. And you know what? Kindness goes so far and online, it's cheap. It's cheap to be mean or disagree without any context. Now I'm a big believer that everyone should have criticism and constructive criticism, though. I'm a big believer that if you don't believe something and you see it online, respond and explain your views and your opinion, you're entitled to it, but do it with grace. I'm a big believer, as a leader you lift others up. You can lift yourself up by lifting others up. And actually saying something nice goes a lot further than just being an silly so-and-so [inaudible 00:10:16] on LinkedIn, just because you want to be the next Piers Morgan. That gets us nowhere.
Michelle Carvill:
I know from experience, I mean, you are very authentic. You're very transparent. You really do put yourself out there and you are not afraid. I often talk about with leaders, and a lot of the conversation that comes up time and time again, is fear. They're afraid to talk about it. They don't want to bring their whole selves to a digital conversation and put themselves out there. And in some cases that can be detrimental to the brand, to the values because they may have a different view so people have to be considerate and considered about what they're talking about online. But I know with you, your worth, what you want to be known for, seen as, as I refer to it, and that clarity and that authenticity, you do put yourself out there. You will join in those conversations.
Michelle Carvill:
I know that hasn't always boded that positively for you on social media, because I mean, it's far from perfect, isn't it? It's great that you've built these networks and it's great that they have connected you and you've done that in a very meaningful and considered way with kindness, with grace, with building those, like you say friendships come out of a lot of that, don't they? But it isn't perfect, is it? So how have you handled some of those challenges, Jack? And what would you give advice to others who also may be concerned of, "You know, I don't want to be challenged on that. I don't want to put myself out there." What would you say about that?
Jack Parsons:
It's a great question and I pause when anyone asks me this question because social media can cause mental health challenges and social media can be very dangerous. I came on to social media about five years ago and I was so cautious what to say, how to say it. Do I put it? And I just run out of nowhere, I went from being the young guy from the council state with an idea to help youth to being a thought leader on there. And people listening, watching my words, anything I said there was a negative spin put on it. There was a lot of name calling. I used to do this thing and I've stopped now because as your brand grows and you grow as a leader, you change, you grow and you don't need to do it. But I used to put selfies on anyone I used to meet up online. Me in the selfie and explain what the meeting was about.
Michelle Carvill:
I remember those, yeah.
Jack Parsons:
Yeah, to show the association that actually I want to improve the odds for young people and I know that I have to go and bring people with me. But when you do that and you're a young person, or anyone. You could be a woman in business, you could be anyone, for some reason, there is this age group... and I don't know why... It's tend to side with the 35 to 45 year olds. I don't know why, who just like to be negative on anything. We live in a culture where British culture tells us failure's bad. British culture, we're a very jealous nation, British people unfortunately, that's why the Daily Mail does very well because they like to pinpoint all the bad in life.
Jack Parsons:
I had this group of trolls, I don't know who they were, a mass group of trolls of about 1,000 people who I've never met, I've never interacted with. I don't even swear online. I don't think [crosstalk 00:14:11] find me do anything online. I don't drink. I don't put anything that's negative. I'm focused. I'm very focused on my mission and what I know and I kind of stay in my line. Try and find a post online where I'm talking about Bitcoin or [inaudible 00:14:26] marketing, I don't because it's not my space. And I stay true to what I know, what I'm trying to do to help young people, but for some reason there were these mass number of trolls that just came out of nowhere, and that makes you feel really bad about yourself. It makes you want to stop your mission.
Jack Parsons:
I even had a C-U-N-T spray painted on my door. [crosstalk 00:14:56] they found my address, I didn't know what was going on, but then you just feel to yourself, is social media really worth it? Is getting on social media and trying to be a leader and share love, and kindness, and insight, and learn really worth it? I had a mental breakdown. Unfortunately I had a family member that passed away and some investor challenges, and I've never felt so low. But it was also down to social media, that helped me rise back up to feel myself again.
Jack Parsons:
So there's a flip coin and I would say any leader that is out there looking, oh, do I use social? How do I use it? Only ever use it what you feel comfortable with, but when you do use it, don't try and be anyone but yourself because you won't be able to last long if you're not authentic. The reason why I've lasted on social media, being a young guy trying to give it a go is I've been very authentic in terms of what I know, what I don't know, and sharing the challenges and the problems along the way. Now, over the last 15 months, the trolls have disappeared. They start disappearing.
Michelle Carvill:
Well, you're not responding.
Jack Parsons:
Not responding and consistency and you get a bit more mature with it. And actually saying nothing is sometimes the best thing said, and that's including writing back to a tweet. I believe, I use this method now. Listen, understand, then respond. Understand where they're coming from because we're all too quick, oh, why's this person being negative? Quickly trying to type back. Don't do that. Social media can really be a dangerous place, but it also can be the best place.
Jack Parsons:
That's how I've been able to build a community of 1.8 million young people. We've been able to help over 90,000 young people get into employment over the last 24 months, is because I've networked as a leader with other leaders, whether that's the leader of eBay, whether that's the guy who runs the recruitment at Capita. Whoever that is, I've been able to build that relationship with, which then helps build more opportunity for youth. That's what I'd say is, you have to just take a step back and say, "Okay, what is their prerogative? Why are they doing it? What is it they want? And why are they saying it?" And look, fair enough to them. I was a young guy jumping up on social media, meeting all these Footsie 100 CEOs, then putting a selfie on, and there's some of these trolls have been trying to do that for 20, 30 years.
Jack Parsons:
And then, so, "What is he doing? How's he getting the meeting?" But I think there's a way. I think there's a way they could have reached out very humbly and said, "Oh, I've been trying 20 years to reach that person, could you connect me?" I'm the first person to lend a helping hand to anyone because that's how I've been brought up, and that's my value is to give and respect and never judge someone, what it's taken them to get out of bed in the morning. I'm very big on inclusive growth. Talking about inclusive growth, social media has helped my growth from coming from a disadvantaged background. It's helped a disadvantaged young lad actually level the playing field when it comes to starting a business, helping you all through social.
Michelle Carvill:
And that is the beauty, isn't it? That it gives everybody the opportunity to connect, to share. But like you say, you've got to be mindful and you've got to... I like that pausing, because you're absolutely right. We're very quick to respond and that think about this for a moment. I think that often the heritage of the social media channels is the speed of interaction. People expect people to fire back straight away or, "Oh I'm complaining. I want to respond from that [inaudible 00:19:16] right now," and our expectation is different. But this is one thing I always say, there are no social media police. I mean, there are too, [crosstalk 00:19:26] terrible, but you are in control. It's your playing field.
Michelle Carvill:
You set the ground rules for you. There might be algorithms that say, "Oh, you need to do this and you need to do that." You don't have to be a slave to those algorithms. You use these channels for your benefit and in the way that you want to use them so you feel good about that mentally as well as professionally. I think that all chimes really well. And I love, you know Jack, as we move in... I mean, this has been a very strange year and there's been a lot about leaders that have to come out, take a different stance, be so much more flexible with employees, be so much more personable, human, the face behind that business. Lots of organizations have been sharing their challenges because we really have all had a lot of challenges together.
Michelle Carvill:
So what about leadership values and your views on leadership? Because leadership has changed. The scene is changing. As we move out of this pandemic, do you think that's all just going to change back to how we've always been? Or do we think these shifts that we've seen about flexibility and the workplace shifting and leadership shifting and yes, kindness and flexibility and more understanding of who we are as individuals, rather than just employees, particularly as you're working with the youth and helping them to get into employment, do you think that's shifted? And do you think that shift will remain or do you think it's just fleeting?
Jack Parsons:
I believe this pandemic has sped a lot of things up and it's changed the way we think, how we work, how we communicate. I've learned to respect time more. And I think as a leader, you have to really... I'm a big believer... Something that I'm really focusing on at the moment is two things. It's one, you have to over-communicate even more now we're doing things more digitally. So over-communicate, over-communicate with all stakeholders, with your clients, with your staff, with your family, with your friends, we have to over-communicate. Now some of that meaning is check in on social. Check in on social media. Do a podcast. Get on a video and share it to all the workforce.
Jack Parsons:
Over-communicate because we're quickly to judge or make assumptions that we know that people clarify what you're saying, and they understand what you're saying. When that's not true, people come from it from all different perspectives. There's so much going on in people's lives. So I'm a big believer, as a leader you should over-communicate to all stakeholders where you can, when you can, in such a meaningful and authentic way. So over-communicates number one.
Jack Parsons:
Number two is no one knows everything, even the person at the top is the saying. I don't like to use that but the person at the top is running the organization. They have anxiety, they have stress, they've got a baby to feed. There's so much going on, but it's human nature. I'm a big believer of gray moments. What I mean by this is we all have gray moments when we're too close to the elephant. When we're too close to the elephant, all we can see is gray so sometimes it's about stepping away from that elephant and seeing all perspectives. Sometimes you need help stepping away from that elephant.
Jack Parsons:
And to do that, you should ask people for advice. Like I said earlier, go from having all the answers, to all the questions in everything you do. Now you can take to social media, you can ask new [inaudible 00:23:50] clients. You can ask your team that follows you on social media. You can ask the next door neighbour, but definitely start looking at how you can step away from that elephant to get to where you want to be. But also to take all perspectives in, because I think we all get beat up, that [inaudible 00:24:06] way or the highway and then we use too many soundbites in this world. Get the deal done, microwave deal, [inaudible 00:24:15] soundbite. And I love what you said around using social media for how you see fit, how you see right.
Jack Parsons:
Now, people might be listening and saying, "Yeah, but what about racism and sexism and all that on social media?" Well that's just a human moral. That's not nothing to do with social media. That's just you as a human being a complete bib, to be honest with you. So I believe that you're totally right. Use social media how you see fit, but with kindness and with dignity. Don't do it with being mean or nasty. So yes, over-communicate. Stop standing too close to that elephant, it's those two leadership skills that I believe are so important when you communicate and when you become a leader. Yeah, everything else, they say cash is king, I think that's not the right term. Cash is crown, it's neither queen or king, cash is crown and there's all those leadership skills that you need. But you know what? Everyone knows that, but when it comes to social media, it's about being authentic, not standing too close to the elephant, and over-communicating in everything you do.
Michelle Carvill:
It is, and it is communication, isn't it, which is the critical thing? When anything goes wrong within organizations, it usually comes down to communication. There just wasn't communication. People got the wrong end of the stick and so I agree with you Jack, about that over-communication. It's kind of coming straight from the horse's mouth. You can clear things up in a nanosecond, can't you? "No, that wasn't the way it was, this is the way it is." And, "It isn't about that, it's about this," and you see that happening and that's all it takes sometimes to just squash the fires, isn't it? To put out any potential. It's just, "No, this is the story and this is how it is." And if that's coming straight from the top, then that's even more powerful.
Jack Parsons:
I totally agree, and let's take an example with what's going on with Topshop at the moment and Topman and that Arcadia brand. You know what? With the right communication, fly back to the UK, get off your yacht, come back to the UK. Call a press release publicly on BBC, because obviously the public's channel, and pledge to actually do something to make the mistakes right. Rather than hiding on a yacht, not communicating and letting down all those people that are about to lose their jobs, and A, B and C.
Jack Parsons:
And people will go, "Well, that doesn't relate to me because I'm an employee and I don't run a Arcadia group," but you have to think about who are your readers and your listeners. It could be the listener of one. It could be the reader of one, and that's around the dinner table with your husband or your wife, or the kids. Who is your reader, and who is your listener? And how are you going to communicate to them in a meaningful way to actually close off that report or whatever it is, that story? To get [crosstalk 00:27:57].
Michelle Carvill:
Yeah, that gap. It's doing the right thing, isn't it?
Jack Parsons:
Yes.
Michelle Carvill:
Sometimes we don't have all the answers and sometimes the right thing is to say, "I don't have all the answers, but I'm showing up. But I'm showing up, or I'm going to ask questions. Or can you support me?" That's a great quality of a leader, isn't it, That recognition that you need your people. They're asking the questions, you don't have them all. That's what it's about, and of course social enables that. It does allow, it does enable connection with your employees. It does enable connection with your customers, more so now than ever before and listening into that. So there's no excuses really for not listening in, even if you don't want to talk, you can do the listening.
Jack Parsons:
I agree. And don't do as I say, do as I do. So don't do as I say, do as I do. I'm not a fan of saying sorry, I'm a fan of saying sorry through action. There's this famous saying back in the day that actions speak louder than words, and it really does. It really does. And if you make a mistake or you get something wrong, actually come forward and show how you're going to make amends. Now you making amends and how you believe it's going to make amends won't cut it for some. You can't please everyone. You're just not going to do it because [inaudible 00:29:31] social media wouldn't be around if that was the case, [inaudible 00:29:35] but you have to have [inaudible 00:29:41] intentions to action your sorry. A lot of people say, "Oh, I'm sorry. I apologize," and put a [inaudible 00:29:50] up online. That's not enough.
Michelle Carvill:
No.
Jack Parsons:
For me, that's useless words. It doesn't mean enough. If you're going to make an apology, actually do it with action. Come up with three points action plan, proof points that you're going to do, and then show people that you've made those actions. So action, action, action. When you get it wrong as a leader, don't just get your marketing team or your comms team to put out a little sorry. Actually do something that stops you... Look, if something went wrong right now for some reason, and I made a massive mess up, I would actually cancel the rest of my day and put it right. That's being an authentic leader actioning on your mistakes, putting it right.
Jack Parsons:
But what happens at the moment is leaders will go to their comms team, get them to write a [inaudible 00:30:46] sorry. Put up online, and then they disappear and they put their comms team in front of them. No. This is where you need to step up, take your armor off, take your bullet proof vest off and say, "I made a mistake. I've spoken to my team, and with the support of them, these are the three actions we're going to take." I tell you, people will respect you and actually you'll gain more friendships and more relationships than you did before you even read the bad thing that you read.
Michelle Carvill:
Yeah, exactly. I couldn't agree more. It is that intent, making the change, isn't it? Doing the right thing and taking action. Words can be very powerful, but we need to see action. I love that. Implementation all the way. What are you going to do about it then? I love that, Jack. Now I'm going to ask you three quite, one of them is a big question, but I'm looking forward to your answers here. I'm going to just throw them at you. So are you ready for these?
Jack Parsons:
I'm ready.
Michelle Carvill:
Okay, so if you could change one thing in the world, what would it be?
Jack Parsons:
If I could change one thing in the world, I would have a day which was focused on community building and kindness. What that would be is everyone would have a passport stamp and they get a kindness passport, and they would have to go and help a local community. Go and network with someone they've not networked with. Help a old woman with her shopping, but be a kinder world for one day. And I believe everyone would have to do it just as we all have to drink and eat, and they would have to participate in a world kindness day of action.
Michelle Carvill:
Fantastic. And of course what would happen is people would say, "Wow, that felt really good. I want to do more of that," right?
Jack Parsons:
Totally.
Michelle Carvill:
Absolutely, love that. What a great, great thing. And very doable.
Jack Parsons:
Yeah, agree.
Michelle Carvill:
Very, very doable. Very doable. Okay, so books, Jack. Which book have you read recently or not recently, but which book have you read that has really stuck with you and really inspired you?
Jack Parsons:
I find it very, very difficult to read because I'm dyslexic. But the last book I read was actually sent to me by my friend, [Jacqueline Duroccas 00:33:23], who is another leader on social media. She sent me, Be More Sausage. What this is is how you should live your life more like a sausage dog. How they're kind, how they're excited, and it shows you the lessons that sausage dogs... I'm a big sausage dog fan... and how the lessons of sausage dogs should be led to make the world kinder. It's just the best book ever, because it shows you through the lens of the sausage dog.
Michelle Carvill:
Be More Sausage.
Jack Parsons:
Be More Sausage, it's Be More Sausage.
Michelle Carvill:
Oh, I'll have to look that one...
Jack Parsons:
And actually they're showing how the sausage dog is a leader.
Michelle Carvill:
Yeah, wonderful. Oh, I love that. I'll put the link to that in the post anyway, but I will be looking that up. That sounds like my kind of book too.
Jack Parsons:
There's loads of photos of dogs, so obviously [crosstalk 00:34:16].
Michelle Carvill:
Oh, that's never lost on me. I love that. Okay, and the last but not least, what's the best piece of advice you've been given to date?
Jack Parsons:
The best bit of advice, which one really helped me through my mental health challenges, is in every situation there is a miracle. No matter how tough you're currently facing what you're facing, whether that personal or professionally, there is a miracle to be found. And if you can't find the miracle, create one.
Michelle Carvill:
Love that. Love that, love that, Jack. That is such a wonderful, wonderful end to this podcast. I have thoroughly enjoyed catching up with you. I'm glad we finally got to do this because I know you've had your challenges this year, both busy and also physically. You've had some challenges and it's been a strange year, but it's been wonderful. And I am delighted to have you rounding off my 2020 Connected Leader Podcast.
Michelle Carvill:
We've covered a number of things about authentic leadership, around kindness, around the challenges of social, around leadership and the future of leadership and that being accelerated, and the flexibility that's going to be required. I think you've shared some real gems. You may only have been on your leadership journey for a few years, but you're just paving the way for even more greatness, Jack.
Jack Parsons:
Thank you. It's so good to come and speak to you. We finally get to meet after five years, and this has been brilliant. I've loved the conversation. I hope the listeners have a lovely Christmas and I'm ready to see them on social in the new year more.
Michelle Carvill:
Yeah, absolutely. You just keep up that great work with your youth campaign and I'll keep watching what you're up to on social. Hopefully in 2021, who knows it, we may get to catch up physically.
Jack Parsons:
We may just. The vaccine is just around the corner, so yeah. Thank you so much and I wish you all the best.
Michelle Carvill:
Thank you, likewise Jack. You've been listening to the Get Social Connected Leader Podcast. Thank you to my guest, and indeed, thank you to you for tuning in. Please do feel free to share the podcast with colleagues and friends who you think will enjoy it. And indeed, subscribe to tune in for more episodes.
Michelle Carvill:
You'll find the podcast on all the usual platforms and all episodes are also on our website, carvillcreative.co.uk/podcasts. You'll also find some really useful digital and social resources on that site too, so be sure to check those out. For now, from me, Michelle Carvill, your host on the podcast, thank you so much for tuning in and goodbye.
Michelle Carvill:
Oh, PS, if you're a business leader with something to share around digital and social technologies and you're keen to be a guest on the podcast, then I'd love to hear from you. You can email me, michelle@carvillcreative.co.uk.