Get Social - The Connected Leader Podcast - Polly Neate, Chief Executive at Shelter

Michelle C.: Hello and welcome to the Get Social Connected Leader Podcast, where I, Michelle Carvill, interview business leaders around the practicalities of how, in this hyper-connected digital age, they are embracing digital technologies to tune in and connect and communicate. You can find all episodes of the podcast, together with show notes, via our website: carvillcreative.co.uk/podcasts.
Michelle C.: In this episode of the Get Social Connected Leader Podcast, I'm delighted to interview Polly Neate. Polly is CEO of Shelter, the housing and homelessness charity. She is a prominent commentator in the media and on platforms as diverse as the Oxford Union and the First Women's March London on housing, social justice, leadership, and feminism. She was previously CEO of Women's Aid and before that executive director at Action for Children. Polly is also trustee of Agenda, the alliance for women and girls at risk.
Michelle C.: Polly, it's great to have you on the podcast. Thank you for joining me this afternoon.
Polly Neate: It's great to be here. I'm really quite pleased to have been asked.
Michelle C.: Fantastic. I thought it would be interesting to talk about how we met, because, of course, like many people that I interview on the podcast, we haven't physically met, but we met thanks to social media and that's why I thought it would be great to get you on the podcast. And that was because it was on Twitter, and you'd put out a question onto Twitter to say I'm thinking about Instagram. What does everybody think about Instagram? How are they using Instagram? And somebody tagged me in and said, "Maybe you should speak to Michelle about leaders using Instagram [crosstalk 00:01:45]," and that's kind of how we connected. So, are you on Instagram now, Polly?
Polly Neate: Yes I am. I don't know how well I'm doing. I shouldn't say that because I'm about to say, if you're listening please follow me. I am @polly@shelter.
Polly Neate: So I already had a private Instagram account for security reasons, because I have had a bit of trouble on social media. I don't publish any information or pictures about my family on Twitter, so I was using Instagram for that on private, but I really felt I ought to be doing something on Instagram professionally because it's a different sort of channel. I think it gets hold of young people much better, I think it's good for kind of a different sort of relationship in different communities, so I decided I was going to give it a go professionally. That was why I put out the call on Twitter. So I have been, yes, [crosstalk 00:02:57]-
Michelle C.: Okay.
Polly Neate: ... @polly@shelter. I'm not 100% sure how well I'm doing it, so I'd really value feedback on that.
Michelle C.: Okay. And that must be a few months, is it, you've been on there?
Polly Neate: Yeah, just a few months. Yes, that's right. And like I found on Twitter actually, I think the first thousand or so followers are the slowest to build up. You kind of get over a critical mass and then I think your followers increase much more quickly. That's certainly my experience was like that on Twitter, and so far on Instagram, I have not got very many followers, no.
Michelle C.: It's a different channel, isn't it? You'll notice the differences.
Michelle C.: So let's go back to just talking a little bit then about when you started using social media, because you're the CEO of Shelter, you've had very high profile jobs in other organizations as well, leadership roles, so how long have you actually been a, shall I say, social CEO?
Polly Neate: Well, I started using Twitter seriously when I joined Women's Aid, the domestic violence charity, as CEO, and that was because I felt that... I was pretty convinced that being active on social media would really benefit the organization. That was the main reason. I wanted to give an accessible and authentic face, if you like, to the organization, and I thought that social media was a really good way of doing that. At the time I thought that the profile of Women's Aid needed to be raised a bit, and I thought social media was a good way to do that.
Polly Neate: The organization itself was already very active and good on social media, but it's different. There's a big difference between what an organization does and that kind of added authenticity and sense of accountability that I think the CEO having a profile on social media has. So I really did it for the benefit, genuinely, to benefit Women's Aid, initially. And I didn't really think that I was actually going to enjoy it very much. I thought I was going to find it a bit of a chore. But, actually, quite the opposite to that. I absolutely grew to love being on Twitter, and I still do. I really, genuinely, do enjoy it.
Polly Neate: I didn't enjoy it immediately, because it takes a while to get the knack and to kind of integrate it into your working life and your daily... Actually, I don't know if you do integrate it into your working life to be completely honest. A bit, but I mean it's normally my personal time that I'm using [inaudible 00:06:09], but I don't mind because I genuinely really do enjoy it.
Michelle C.: So tell me what you... I mean, because I'm a big fan of Twitter. So many people still say to me, like, "I don't get it. I don't get it." And for me-
Polly Neate: Yeah, I know. People say that to me all the time, and, "Oh, doesn't it get in the way, and how do you find the time?" But I've integrated it now completely into my... I don't really talk about having work-life balance anyway, I think because work and life aren't two different things to me, so I think about it as my life balance, and I try and keep all the things that are important to me in my life in balance, and I don't find incorporating social media into that difficult. I think if I had a more rigid notion of work versus life, then I probably might feel that social media was impinging on the life-half of that, if you like.
Michelle C.: Yes.
Polly Neate: I'm not sure how doable that rigid sense of work versus life is as a CEO anyway, and because I don't feel like that and haven't done for many years, I think that really helps with being happy with social media.
Michelle C.: It's interesting you say that, Polly, because pretty much that is the same sentiment that's coming through time and time again from the interviews that I've done. I've done about 17 of these interviews now and each time that work-life balance, it's just totally integrated. You don't switch off at 5:00 as a CEO and go home and it all stops. It's a continuous. It's just part of who you are, isn't it?
Polly Neate: That's right. And also there are things that are important to my life that I integrate during what would normally be considered the working day.
Michelle C.: Exactly.
Polly Neate: So, yes, I don't switch off at 5:00, and I'm quite often doing things that might be considered or would be considered work in the evening or before 9:00 in the morning and at weekends. But on the other hand, I quite often take longer to get between meetings because I like to walk. I like to walk and have a think. That's part of how I like to live my life. It's not, strictly speaking, work. So it works both ways really.
Michelle C.: It does. It does. So coming back then to your love of Twitter, what was it that, you know, as you say, you started off thinking, "Okay, I'm going to do this because I think it's good for the organization and I want to bring that authenticity," which you're 100% right, it's a different layer. You're not doing the promotion that maybe the organization might be doing on their social media feeds and storytelling, necessarily, about the brand at large, but you are there to validate and to support all of that and to add that layer of authenticity, and I think that's a really lovely blend that you can see happening. So what was it that switched you then from, "Oh, I'm going to do this and I may not enjoy it," to this, "Great, I love this, I really enjoy it," and what were you getting out of it?
Polly Neate: Oh, lots of things. Lots and lots of things. One is a sense of solidarity. So at the time, I was chief exec of Women's Aid, which is a feminist organization, and it's a role that attracts quite a lot of criticism, some reasonable and some quite unpleasant, and contrary to that giving me trouble on Twitter, I mean, it does, but I find it relatively easy to ignore that.
Polly Neate: But what I did find on Twitter was the solidarity of other women, other feminists, people who would really expand my knowledge and understanding of the topic that I was engaging with. So domestic abuse and the abuse of women, I found a huge education on Twitter, people from different countries that I would never have connected with ordinarily, and people working at a local level. I was very much working at a national level, but people working day-to-day at a local level with victims and survivors of domestic abuse and perpetrators, I just found it incredibly educational and incredibly supportive. So that was one thing. So I guess it's that solidarity, that support, expanding my knowledge. And then the other thing was just making some very useful contacts.
Polly Neate: So absolutely, I've have ended up bringing funding into an organization because of relationships that I built on Twitter. Like I can definitely trace actual money back to what were initially Twitter contacts, so that's definitely happened. Incredibly useful work contacts.
Polly Neate: So there's the solidarity, the knowledge, then there's the actual useful contacts for doing the business, as it were, which is really important. And then I guess the other thing is that I genuinely enjoy tweeting. So I used to be a journalist.
Michelle C.: Okay.
Polly Neate: And so maybe that's why, but the challenge of making something really short but still having an impact is something that I really enjoyed as a journalist, and I really enjoy it on Twitter. In fact when Twitter increased the character count, I've got used to it now, and I quite like it now, but when they were first doing it, I was completely anti it, because I really like the challenge of squeezing... And I don't like using loads and loads of abbreviations. I like the idea of squeezing what I want to say into something really concise.
Polly Neate: Certainly, I wouldn't rate myself as a great intellectual, so I think there's very few things that I want to say that can't be said in a tweet. As you're probably hearing, I can be quite verbose, so it's really good to have the discipline of having to say things very concisely.
Michelle C.: Yeah, I loved it and I was totally with you there, Polly. When that came out, I was like, "What?" It almost takes all the fun of having to say as much with less, because you really have to think about it, don't you, to get it down. Or just sometimes it's a bit pithy and that was permittable with 140 characters, whereas when it got 280 it was like what?
Polly Neate: I know.
Michelle C.: So I was with you on that. So that's interesting. So there was a lot of stuff there. I love the networking aspect, because I hear that a lot about, and I know from my own activity, the breadth of knowledge, being able to broaden your view on a topic is really fantastic, and again, you're operating at a national level. To actually hear what's really going on at a local level and down on the ground can be really insightful.
Polly Neate: Yeah, and I still find that now at Shelter. Shelter is a very different organization from Women's Aid, so in some ways I actually feel I need Twitter less. So the solidarity aspect, which was incredibly important to me at Women's Aid, so I still really... I'm still very much a public feminist and very proud of that.
Michelle C.: Well you're a trustee for the Agency Alliance, aren't you, as well?
Polly Neate: Agenda-
Michelle C.: Agenda.
Polly Neate: ... Alliance.
Michelle C.: Agenda Alliance, yes.
Polly Neate: Yes, so I still find that feminist solidarity very enjoyable, but I'm less dependent on it than I was when I was... I felt kind of a bit constantly sort of under attack on that front. So I probably feel less emotionally attached to Twitter. That hasn't actually occurred to me till just that minute, just a minute ago.
Michelle C.: Okay.
Polly Neate: But I actually do feel less emotionally attached to Twitter than I did when I was at Women's Aid, but it's still all the other benefits are still very much there for me at Shelter. When I have a chance, I very much enjoy blogging, so again, I do a bit less of that at Shelter because I've got a much bigger team around me, but I still do a bit and I enjoy that, and Twitter's obviously a good way of getting that out and about. It's quite difficult to draw attention to blogs if you don't tweet them.
Michelle C.: It is.
Polly Neate: So, yeah, I don't know what you're quite going to do with them otherwise, really.
Michelle C.: Instagram.
Polly Neate: I suppose. Well, yes, Instagram. Although links-
Michelle C.: The links are problematic, yeah.
Polly Neate: Yeah, that's one of the really annoying things about Instagram actually.
Michelle C.: It is.
Polly Neate: Yeah, I find that very frustrating, and to be honest, I can't be bothered to keep changing the [crosstalk 00:16:18].
Michelle C.: [inaudible 00:16:18] in the bio.
Polly Neate: Yeah, I haven't got into doing that because I can't be bothered with that.
Michelle C.: I think they're going to change it. Watch this space, but I've just got a feeling they're going to have to do something. It can't just be all about get to 10,000 followers, because getting to 10,000 followers they've realized that there's it's not terribly authentic doing that.
Polly Neate: No.
Michelle C.: So it's not about that. It's kind of counterproductive to push that and I think they've recognized that, so I think we're going to see that change, but let's see.
Polly Neate: Oh, I really hope you're right, because that would make me a much bigger fan of Instagram's-
Michelle C.: Exactly.
Polly Neate: ... platform. Definitely. It's one of the big drawbacks of it. Yeah, so I really like that about Twitter.
Polly Neate: Oh, the articles that I've read that I would not otherwise have read and people I've discovered on Twitter, a lot of it through being feminist, but some fantastic American feminists, for example, that I very much doubt I would've discovered was it not for social media. So that's been brilliant.
Michelle C.: So the networking is really... I hear they really are social networks and they're great for networking. I've connected and met, you've connected and met, and it really can lead to, as you said in your case, funding new business development, new business relationships.
Polly Neate: Absolutely.
Michelle C.: They absolutely do. Have you...? This has happened to me quite a lot over the years now, that I've met people via Twitter that has then turned into something where we've met and we've done business offline.
Polly Neate: Oh, yeah.
Michelle C.: You've met on Twitter, you've made those connections and then it becomes, just as you would in the traditional business networking sense, it's become a good relationship offline.
Polly Neate: Oh, yeah, or a friendship. Absolutely. There's a fantastic woman who, well she'll probably listen to this if I tweet it out, but there's a fantastic woman who is now my mentor, who I knew many years ago in a completely different world when I was a journalist and who I reconnected with on Twitter, and then thought, "Oh, wow." I always thought she was really good, and I was looking for a mentor, and I thought, "Actually, do you know what? That is the person."
Polly Neate: I'd really struggled to find somebody that I wanted to mentor me, because I specifically didn't want, for various reasons that aren't relevant to this podcast probably, I didn't really want another charity CEO as a mentor.
Michelle C.: Yes.
Polly Neate: Because I had quite a good network anyway, so I wanted someone a bit different. And I reconnected with this woman on Twitter and then asked her if she'd be my mentor. We met up and she agreed, and she is.
Michelle C.: Fantastic.
Polly Neate: And has been for, I think, yeah, awhile. Well over a year. So things like that, I would never have, definitely, I would not have reconnected with her were it not for Twitter, and there's quite a few other people who I've known from the past who then I've found again on social media. Well, on Twitter specifically.
Michelle C.: Yes. It's brilliant. And it is, it's great. The thing is, it's almost like if you're on Twitter, it's permission to be connected, isn't it?
Polly Neate: That's it. Exactly.
Michelle C.: It's quite-
Polly Neate: Because you're out there.
Michelle C.: Yeah. You're on it-
Polly Neate: And particularly if you're not... And I think that is the big benefit of not being on private. I don't really understand it, unless they've got two accounts. I don't really understand it when somebody who's on Twitter professionally, so like their bio says, "This is my job," and then they're on private. Obviously I'm not on private on Twitter, so being in public on Twitter is absolutely giving people permission-
Michelle C.: Permission.
Polly Neate: ... to contact you, to tweet you, to @ you, and you have permission to do the same to them, I feel, and that's really helpful, I think.
Michelle C.: It is. It's kind of like turning up to a networking event with earplugs in, isn't it?
Polly Neate: Yes [crosstalk 00:21:00]. Exactly.
Michelle C.: It's like, "Well I'm here, but I don't really want to speak to anybody or hear what anybody's got to say."
Polly Neate: Yeah, it's really quite odd. I mean, I get it if it's your personal, if it's, you know, you just want your friends to follow you. I get that.
Michelle C.: Exactly.
Polly Neate: But I do know some people who are on Twitter professionally and on private, and I find it a bit odd.
Michelle C.: They may have been told to be on there and they don't really want to be on there.
Polly Neate: No, maybe they don't really want to, exactly.
Michelle C.: They don't really want to.
Polly Neate: Fair enough.
Michelle C.: So given your role and your role now and your previous role and how you've been using social media and the benefits that you've seen around connecting, around insights, around learning, around all of those aspects, there was a tweet that just came on just before this interview, which I tagged you in actually [crosstalk 00:21:49], you know, "Ooh, I'll ask Polly about this," but somebody had put a tweet out saying that CEOs these days that aren't really tuned into social media and Twitter are really quite-
Polly Neate: Hello?
Michelle C.: Can you hear me? Have we lost you?
Polly Neate: Hello.
Michelle C.: Hello?
Michelle C.: So, given that you have found Twitter and social media to be a really useful tool for connecting, for learning, for broadening that education, connecting with all sorts of people that you wouldn't ordinarily have been able to, there was a tweet that just went out earlier that I actually tagged you in on, around a CEO stating that if CEOs aren't on social media and Twitter these days, they are ignorant. What's your view about that?
Polly Neate: Well I think ignorant's a bit harsh, isn't it?
Michelle C.: Mm (affirmative).
Polly Neate: I do think they're missing out though, definitely. And I think their organization or company, or whatever, is missing out as well, so I guess I would agree that it's part of the job, and I feel a responsibility now. In 2019 as a CEO, I think you do have a responsibility probably.
Polly Neate: It might feel a bit exposing. I can understand. So I have experienced trolling and unpleasantness. I think I'm quite a resilient individual, so I can understand people in some jobs not wanting to do it, but I think if you're not in one of those positions and I think you do have to deal with people who don't like you. I think you need to be able to deal with that, probably, in most jobs, in most situations. So I would say yes, probably it is the responsibility of a CEO nowadays to do it.
Michelle C.: And I suppose there's a lot about leadership now, and especially with digital being, you know, there's an expectation, isn't there? I mean, there certainly is for me now because of Twitter. I expect to be able to contact the CEO of whoever and I expect them to respond, and it's almost rude if they don't. There is this kind of consumer expectation that, well, why wouldn't you answer me?
Michelle C.: So beyond there being a lot of rich insights and a lot of, as you say, that man on the ground learning that you can actually really hear and see what's going on, and there are insights to be gleaned from the coalface and from the discussions that are happening around and you are part of those discussions, there's also that element of the expectation that, well, it's just kind of expected that people don't put the CEOs up in an ivory tower anymore, do they?
Polly Neate: No. So that's quite an interesting one. I think if somebody contacts me on Twitter politely, then yes, I do feel I should respond. Definitely. And I pretty much always do. I think when somebody then is asking you to follow them so they can DM you and they then ask for your contact details or email address, I find that a bit of a gray area.
Polly Neate: So normally I do actually follow people back, if they ask nicely, and then if they then DM me, I shouldn't be saying this because it might happen more, which I'm about to get onto. So the problem I then have is people ask for my email address, I then give them my email address over DM, so I don't do it over-
Michelle C.: No, no, no, no.
Polly Neate: Actually over Twitter. Although it's not difficult to find someone's email address.
Michelle C.: It isn't these days, no.
Polly Neate: No. But the problem is that I do have a limited time to respond-
Michelle C.: Of course you do.
Polly Neate: ... to the emails that I get that are actually kind of directly related to work, so that is a bit of a tricky one, and I don't think people necessarily have a right to expect that if they email me over something that is actually not really relevant to my job, then I don't think I have a responsibility to respond via my work email address.
Michelle C.: No.
Polly Neate: So I might give it to them, but then when I then get the email, if it isn't relevant, I may not respond, and what I definitely won't do is give out my personal email address on Twitter, unless it's to somebody that I really want to be in contact with-
Michelle C.: Exactly.
Polly Neate: ... the person, or whatever. So I think there's a bit of a gray area there about-
Michelle C.: I think it's also, as you picked up on there, it's choice, isn't it, and context.
Polly Neate: Yeah.
Michelle C.: If it makes sense, and I don't think anybody minds about that. I don't think anybody minds that-
Polly Neate: Well I think some people do-
Michelle C.: Some people might, yeah, yeah, but-
Polly Neate: ... actually.
Michelle C.: Yeah. There is that kind of-
Polly Neate: I think people do mind. I think if people want to contact you and you then deem it actually, being completely blunt, not something you have time to respond to, then I don't think that feels nice for that person and I think that is then when that's quite difficult, because by being on Twitter and being authentically...
Polly Neate: So I think the person that I represent on Twitter is absolutely me, so I'm very chatty, it's not all about work, I talk about my other interests a bit on Twitter. I think if you met me, if you follow me on Twitter and you then meet me, I don't think there's any surprise. That is absolutely me and it's very authentically my personality.
Polly Neate: If you're very authentically you on Twitter, and I am, I think, and if you met me, I don't think there'd be any surprise, if you follow me on Twitter, that is me, then I think if someone then wants to email you and you sort of then put up a barrier, as I sometimes have done, then I think that can feel a bit difficult for people sometimes, and I can understand that.
Michelle C.: Do you get support? So you said you do all of your tweeting yourself. If you get those emails that then you've taken it further and somebody's DM'd you and then it becomes... and then you think, "Do you know what, this is not something I can deal with or need to deal with," do you then just move it along to somebody else within your team? Do you get support that way? Tell me about how you manage all of the [crosstalk 00:29:26]?
Polly Neate: If it's relevant for Shelter, but not relevant to me-
Michelle C.: Exactly.
Polly Neate: ... then yes, I would pass it on. If it's relatively easy to respond to but not relevant to Shelter and I have a bit of time, then I might respond-
Michelle C.: Okay.
Polly Neate: ... myself, in a friendly way. If it is not relevant to Shelter and not easy to respond-
Michelle C.: Not [crosstalk 00:29:56]
Polly Neate: ... to, then I will just probably ignore it. So what I don't do is expect my team at Shelter to kind of support my personal presence on social media-
Michelle C.: Social media.
Polly Neate: ... beyond what is their normal job anyway. I don't expect them to handhold me or use their time to kind of help me out, particularly, unless I think it's something that it is their job to do that. So some things might come up where absolutely it's about something to do with Shelter, it's definitely somebody who works in our comms team's job to respond to it and I would then ask them to respond to it. Sometimes it's just not their job, so I don't expect them to do that.
Michelle C.: Okay. And what would you say, because you've been doing this for a while now, so what would you say has been your biggest learning so far around being on social media? If somebody said to you, "What's been your biggest learning from all this stuff that you've been doing so far?" what would you say to others?
Polly Neate: Oh, that's quite hard. I don't know [crosstalk 00:31:16].
Michelle C.: I suppose is there anything you wish you'd known at the outset that could've or would've made life simpler or easier that you've picked up?
Polly Neate: To be honest, I don't really find it difficult. I think one of the things that I would say as a kind of tip, if you like-
Michelle C.: Yes.
Polly Neate: ... is it's fine to have some clear boundaries and it's a good idea to work out what those boundaries are. So I never identify members of my family on Twitter. I don't post photographs of my children. That's partly because I have had some abuse on Twitter and I definitely don't want them to have that, so I don't identify my kids, I don't put photos of them or copy them into tweets or anything like that. I don't do that. I don't talk much about my partner either on Twitter, actually. And I don't tweet anything that would give away where I live.
Michelle C.: No.
Polly Neate: So there is some kind of obvious boundaries, and then there are some other things that are about, you know, just think about, I think it's quite important to give a flavor of the sort of person you are, so some of the things that I like to do in my personal life, particularly. So I love cycling, I love rock climbing. I do tweet about those things. There are other things that I like to do in my personal life that I don't tweet about.
Michelle C.: Exactly.
Polly Neate: So you can be authentic, but you can still have bits of your life that are off limit.
Michelle C.: Exactly.
Polly Neate: It's good to set out for yourself what those are. But then I also think it's good to be flexible about that as well. So if you change your mind and you suddenly decide actually, I am going to tweet about this, then I think it's absolutely fine to be a bit...
Polly Neate: So don't feel like you've got to have these rigid rules that you'll never break, but I think it's a good idea to keep a constant sense of what your boundaries are, but in a kind of flexible way, if that makes sense.
Michelle C.: So if somebody was starting out then, right now, you know, a CEO, a leader who was very unsure and tentative about getting started, afraid a little bit of messing it up, what...? I mean, you were a journalist previously, so you were comfortable with communication. That's clearly helped. What would you say to them?
Polly Neate: That boundary thing I think is important. The other thing I do is I don't read all the replies to my tweets. I don't read all my replies because that's usually where the kind of nasty comments are, so I don't bother with that. I think tweets are in the moment, I don't think I've got a responsibility to follow up with everyone who replies. Sometimes I do. If it's interesting I do, but I don't even necessarily read them all.
Polly Neate: Oh, the other thing is, when you're starting, you have to follow a lot of people, and I think one of the things that I found was my timeline just felt completely overwhelming, whereas now I realized after a bit that you just skim through your timeline. If you've got time, read it. If you haven't got time, don't read it. I think if you follow lots of people, and then I can actually remember, this is years ago, but I can remember kind of feeling like, "Oh my God, I've got this inundation of information," and you don't have to feel that, because you don't need to read it all.
Michelle C.: No. I always liken it to a bit like you could go onto BBC News website and there are hundreds of articles changing every day, and you might just read the headlines or the bits that you're interested in and maybe spot something of, ooh, that looks a bit interesting and curious over there. But the majority of it you don't read.
Polly Neate: That's right.
Michelle C.: You might just skim and read, but you don't actually stop and pause and read everything because you just don't have the time. Or it may just be that you're not particularly interested.
Polly Neate: That's right.
Michelle C.: So I think that's a good way of thinking about it because I think people do get very concerned about time, and there is a lot of pushback on social media. I see it a lot on posts where people are always saying, "Yes, CEOs need to be doing this." "Yeah, but CEOs need to be getting on with the job, and this isn't part of the job, and we need to be doing more important things." It's a time issue.
Polly Neate: I think that I would push back on. I think it is part of the job. I think it is a responsibility to give an authentic personal face to your organization nowadays, and I think you just basically have to grin and... If you don't like it, you just have to grin and bear it quite frankly.
Polly Neate: So I do think it's a-
Michelle C.: I love that.
Polly Neate: ... responsibility. On the time thing though, I think it is important to reassure people that with practice it does become less time-consuming and also it becomes a lot more enjoyable.
Michelle C.: It does.
Polly Neate: You can minimize the time and you can enjoy it, so it isn't that bad really.
Michelle C.: No. No.
Polly Neate: In fact it's not only not that bad, it's absolutely I really, really like it. I really enjoy it.
Michelle C.: Me too. Me too. So I like to end, Polly, with some quickfire learn about the leader style questions, just kind of away from the topic, just kind of-
Polly Neate: I'll try and be short. Oh my God.
Michelle C.: The challenge is they're big questions, so it is really the top of the head stuff. Are you okay for me to fire these at you?
Polly Neate: Yeah, I'm okay. I haven't thought about these in advance, so yeah, go on then.
Michelle C.: Don't worry, just whatever comes to you. So, if you could change one thing in the world, what would it be?
Polly Neate: It would be... One thing in the whole world?
Michelle C.: Yeah. There's probably lots of things you'd want to change, but if there was just-
Polly Neate: Yeah, there are.
Michelle C.: ... one thing.
Polly Neate: Yeah, God.
Michelle C.: What would be top of your list right now, top priority? Because the priorities change, but right now.
Polly Neate: Right now, do you know what, I would dismantle the patriarchy, because it's actually the cause of a lot more problems than people think.
Michelle C.: Okay. That's a priority right now, very topical.
Michelle C.: Which book, Polly, have you read recently that's inspired you?
Polly Neate: I only read fiction when I'm on my summer holiday. That's a terrible admission, isn't it?
Michelle C.: Not really. I think it's quite commonplace.
Polly Neate: I'm trying to look back, and I'm so senile I can't even remember what I read on my last summer holiday. Can we come back to that one?
Michelle C.: We can come back to that, and it can be non-fiction. It can be whatever book has inspired you. And best piece of advice you've ever been given to date.
Polly Neate: The best piece of advice I've ever been given was do not make self-depreciating remarks when you're public speaking.
Michelle C.: Yes. Things like...
Polly Neate: I don't really know much about this, but I'm going to talk about it anyway or stuff like that. I still do it, by the way. I mean, I am a woman after all.
Michelle C.: But it makes me [inaudible 00:39:31]. Or a lot of women say, "I'm sorry. Ooh, sorry about that. Ooh, sorry, I'm feeling a bit low. Sorry that the [crosstalk 00:39:37]." It is. We do it more than men, definitely.
Polly Neate: Oh my God, yeah. Much more.
Michelle C.: Yeah, there's a apologetic approach, and I agree. That's a great piece of advice, actually. That self-talk publicly, that's a great one to eradicate. So, good, I love that. And don't worry about the book. If nothing comes to mind [crosstalk 00:40:07].
Polly Neate: I'm going to think of it in a minute. I am going to think of it.
Michelle C.: Okay. Anything else? So tell us how our listeners can find you then, Polly? What's your handle on Twitter. You've already mentioned your Instagram is @polly@shelter, is it?
Polly Neate: @polly@shelter, yeah.
Michelle C.: Yes.
Polly Neate: And my Twitter is @pollyn1.
Michelle C.: @polly N for...
Polly Neate: Neate.
Michelle C.: Neate. Oh yeah.
Polly Neate: My surname.
Michelle C.: Perfect. Oh yeah, that makes sense. @pollyn1. Perfect.
Polly Neate: @pollyn1.
Michelle C.: So you can connect with you that way, and obviously to find out about Shelter and the great [crosstalk 00:40:47].
Polly Neate: So Shelter is @shelter on Twitter, and on Instagram it's @sheltercharity.
Michelle C.: Perfect. Perfect. Great. So, it just leaves me-
Polly Neate: I still haven't thought of the book.
Michelle C.: You haven't thought of the book.
Polly Neate: I'm really sorry.
Michelle C.: Okay. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Not everybody needs to tell me the book.
Polly Neate: You can ask me my favorite song or something like that instead.
Michelle C.: Favorite song. Give me the favorite song.
Polly Neate: My favorite song is really easy because it really is my favorite song, and it's London Calling by The Clash.
Michelle C.: Oh, that's a corker. Well that is fantastic. Maybe I should switch it to songs for the next [crosstalk 00:41:22].
Polly Neate: Because I love London and it's got that bit that goes, "I have no fear 'cause I live by the river." And I do live quite near the river and I love that song.
Michelle C.: And it is a great, great song. Great song. That is brilliant. Maybe I need to change tact and move from books to songs. I think I like that better.
Polly Neate: It's an easier choice [crosstalk 00:41:46].
Michelle C.: It's an easier choice, is it? Well I don't know. Don't know. For me that would be a challenge.
Polly Neate: It is for me anyway. It is for me.
Michelle C.: There you go. Fantastic. So, Polly, it's been an absolute delight. Thank you so much for being on the podcast.
Polly Neate: Oh, that's all right.
Michelle C.: Loads of insights.
Polly Neate: Gosh, thanks for asking me.
Michelle C.: Loads of insights, and I look forward to speaking again on Twitter soon.
Polly Neate: Yes, thank you.
Michelle C.: You've been listening to the Get Social Connected Leader Podcast. Thank you to my guest, and indeed thank you to you for tuning in. Please do feel free to share the podcast with colleagues and friends who you think will enjoy it, and indeed subscribe to tune in for more episodes.
Michelle C.: You'll find the podcast on all the usual platforms, and all episodes are also on our website: carvillcreative.co.uk.podcasts. You'll also find some really useful digital and social resources on that site too, so be sure to check those out. So for now, from me, Michelle Carvill, your host on the podcast, thank you so much for tuning in, and goodbye.
Michelle C.: Oh, p.s., if you're a business leader with something to share around digital and social technologies and you're keen to be a guest on the podcast, then I'd love to hear from you. You can email me: michelle@carvillcreative.co.uk.